General Slowpitch Softball Forum Discuss slowpitch topics that don't fit in to other categories here!

Some Math / Predictions


This is a discussion on Some Math / Predictions within the General Slowpitch Softball Forum forums, part of the Softball Forums category!
From the other board... Some Math / Predictions IP: 24.62.180.34 Posted on 6/7/2007 at 10:22:13 AM by cb50 Some math ...




Sponsored Ads
Register to remove these ads.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-09-2007, 04:16 AM   #1 (permalink)
Red Shirt Freshman
 
Max Johnson's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Name: Max
Location: Your mom's box
Posts: 30,972
Default Some Math / Predictions

From the other board...

Some Math / Predictions
IP: 24.62.180.34
Posted on 6/7/2007 at 10:22:13 AM by cb50

Some math for those that are interested (I think this is right) -

A ball traveling at:

* 80 mph goes 117 feet per second.
* 100 mph goes 146 feet per second.
* 120 mph goes 176 feet per second.

A pitcher standing at 60 feet has between 1/2 (80 mph) and 1/3 (120 mph) of a second to locate, react, and catch a ball at him.

Predictions -

* Softball is fun, especially hitting the ball hard and far. Bats wont change, and guys will always cork, shave, boil, roll, paint, doctor bats. More people will play - the game is not going anywhere (good thing, it is fun).

* More catastrophic injuries will occur - broken bones and worse (shots to the chest) that will require immediate medical attention. Or worse.

* Less people will want to pitch/play infield. More "unqualified" people will. MORE CATASTROPHIC INJURIES.

* At some point, associations will wake up.

The more I read, the more I agree - quick answer to all this - CHANGE THE BALLS NOW. Work bat changes in as we go.

Stock Tip - buy companies that sell facemasks, shin gaurds, chest protectors. These will be the new hot items of the future to play infield/pitch in softball. If you dont agree - think about how many masks you saw this weekend at a tourney. More than ever. I now bring my stuff to the park in a hockey bag.

cb50




__________________
uʍop ǝpısdn sı ɹǝʇndɯoɔ ɹnoʎ sıɥʇ pɐǝɹ uɐɔ noʎ ɟı
Max Johnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 07:53 PM   #2 (permalink)
Member

 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 74
Default

I agree with the fact that there is a serious problem with the game today.
I presented to ASA in 2005 facts on softballs since the 80's and bat's since the 80's. The associations continue to change the ball trying to manage the game and it has not worked to this date, so what makes you think it will work in the future?

The first alloy bats were made of a 2000 series alloy and we mainly hit a cork ball. Fields were on average 270'. It was a very controlled game then and 10 runs put you in a position to win if you could catch.

Then came the poly ball from worth and that changed the game dramaticly. surlyn was introduced the following year by dudley between .54 -.56 cor the balls were soon outlawed because of safety.

Still in the early 80's bat companies found cu-31 alloy, thinner walls now meant the .50 ball would fly to far now the associations look to correct the problem. By the late 80's most of the associations are looking to make the .47 - .48 the new standard.

early 90's the .47 becomes the official ball, and along comes c-405. The bat companies found this metal to be stronger yet more flexable to hit lower compression ball better.
About this same time Demarini introduced the double wall and we all know what happened then.
Next came the .44/525 ball and with the 405 and double wall bats the game continued to out play the softball fields and safty factor.

Then .44/375 and composite bats, nothing good has come from this other than making alot of money for bat DR's and making marginal players good.

So here are a few points to think about.
1. Bat companies will continue to make their bats hit what ever ball we make very good, if they don't a bat dr will.
2. Bats continually get better the more they are hit.
3. A ball only performs at its best on the first hit.

Their is much to this argument and I have charts and graphs to back up the progression of the game. To put this into perspective, for 20+ years the associations have changed the ball. For 20+ years bat companies have manufactured bats to counteract the balls, so at what point is this going to work.
If I had someone that worked for me that was wrong for 20+ years he would not have a job, maybe after the second year he would not have a job. So how is it that every association has gotten it wrong for so long yet their answer is to change the ball again.

ASA has quitely mandated a ball correction and it ain't going to be fun for you guys when it is 90 degrees out hitting a pillow, If you had all of the supporting data you would be yelling to change the bats instead of the balls.

Oh yeah the bats are changing again this year for ASA and it will be very obvious when someone has an altered bat, and you will be suspended
trumpball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 08:53 PM   #3 (permalink)
Red Shirt Freshman
 
Max Johnson's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Name: Max
Location: Your mom's box
Posts: 30,972
Default

About time you post over here again, Kev.

I've said the same thing all along. When we play in Pawling or Yonkers and other places, the balls are very temperature sensitive. The old balls were plenty good in the heat and didn't vary as much with the temp as the newer ones do. This is what we have to suffer through so that guys can buy some power at a store.

The solution of some is to use supercrap balls so that any bat can be swung. We should all be penalized so that guys can spend $350 on a new stealth and then another $100 getting it shaved. Crap.

How will the ASA bats be obvious? Obvious only in ASA or will you be able to tell in UTrip tournies as well?
__________________
uʍop ǝpısdn sı ɹǝʇndɯoɔ ɹnoʎ sıɥʇ pɐǝɹ uɐɔ noʎ ɟı
Max Johnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2007, 01:04 PM   #4 (permalink)
Member

 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 74
Default

Kenny,
If ya hadn't banned me a couple of years ago I would have continued to post here. I didn't even know I could get back on until yesterday.
trumpball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2007, 01:53 PM   #5 (permalink)
Leading Off
 
cuse6189's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,943
Default

I like what Triple Crown did a few years back, They used the worst balls possible and said bring any bat you like. Somebody needs to grow a set and do something
__________________
Winning is the only thing in life that matters!!!!!
cuse6189 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2007, 02:55 PM   #6 (permalink)
cb50
Guest

 
Posts: n/a
Default

Trumpball - great info. Funny how one action by the associations and leagues (trying to reign in balls/bats for player safety) has ALWAYS pushed a contrary reaction (manfacturers making - and players doctoring - hotter equipment). You point out well that it was not a matter of regulating things to keep them at a certain level - but just trying to keep up. The speed that the ball is coming off the bat, despite the changing of balls, has increased slowly but steadily. We have gotten where we are today despite these efforts. I would point out that the last few years - it has grown ridicuously because of composite bats.

I stand corrected - the balls aren't the "silver bullet".

My main point was (I think most would agree) that todays version of softball is putting some players (at all levels of skill - infielders/pitchers) at a much greater level of risk than years past. We are getting close to (if not already there) to a point where serious injuries will be way to commonplace. Most saw this coming.

Short term - I think ASA is doing more to protect players, although I agree that the system is still flawed. I dont mean to start this as an ASA vs. USSSA post. Facts are ASA has at least slowed down the issue and seems more organized to create a safer environment by reigning in the bats and balls. And more importantly, the ASA game is still like the 'traditional' game.
.
USSSA is trying some things, like 6 feet back, but that 6 feet only adds a blink of the eye. USSSA seems more agreeable to "modify" the game to fit the new technology. USSSA bats are more lively and the balls are much harder.

Long Term - who knows. It is clear that if it is left up to the players and equipment manufacturers - things will continue to progress as they are now. That is fine, but playing dynamics need to change then - especially in USSSA. We cant continue to play this game on the same field with the same rules - infielders/pitchers need more space/time. Do you move the bases and mound back substantially play on a baseball field - which is done at higher levels? Is that slow pitch softball or some derivation of it? USSSA/NSA/ISA becomes the "new generation" of softball while ASA is more traditional? There are some conflicts here that dont mesh.


cb50
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2007, 03:06 PM   #7 (permalink)
Leading Off
 
cuse6189's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,943
Default

USSSA is trying some things, like 6 feet back, but that 6 feet only adds a blink of the eye. USSSA seems more agreeable to "modify" the game to fit the new technology. USSSA bats are more lively and the balls are much harder.
Personally I don't think this helps that much and I don't think alot of pitchers would disagree
__________________
Winning is the only thing in life that matters!!!!!
cuse6189 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2007, 04:05 PM   #8 (permalink)
cb50
Guest

 
Posts: n/a
Default Agreed

As a pitcher - I agree. A split second to react is still a split second to react, 6 feet or none. Just more room for error in throwing strikes/locating the ball. Playing third is no picnic either - it is getting to the point that the whole infield is "getting buzzed". Seeing more and more infielders playing in the grass - 20 to 30 feet back from normal positions. The balls come so fast, they still have plenty of time to get it to a base.

cb50
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2007, 05:20 PM   #9 (permalink)
Member
 
sbnut73's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 218
Default

Isn't the ASA 98mph bat standard a step in the right direction?

Wouldn't ALL associations banning rolling/vicing and crap mean bats were a little less lively (if it doesn't make a difference then why do it?) and safer?

I don't like hitting a diaper. I enjoy playing with the 44/400 USSSA Trump ball. The Worth equivalent is ok but I don't think it holds up to moisture as well.

There are rules are ready there. They just need to be enforced (regular bat testing) and adopted by all associations (98 mph standard).
__________________
"Men are going to get killed today, Sue, and Iím going to kill them. Do you understand that?"
sbnut73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2007, 05:36 PM   #10 (permalink)
Member

 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 74
Default

When you pitch from 6 feet back the inbound speed of the ball increases and that means the outbound speed also increases, nullifying any advantage a pitcher gets. This has been tested and proved to be correct. It is like putting a bandaid on a shotgun wound.
trumpball is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT. The time now is 04:42 AM.