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Sawastea's Review of Thermogenics, Protein, Cell-volumizers and Miscellaneous. Feel free to check it out and let me know your thoughts. ...

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Old 10-28-2004, 03:05 AM   #1 (permalink)

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Default Sawastea's Review of Fat-Burners and misc supplements...

Sawastea's Review of Thermogenics, Protein, Cell-volumizers and Miscellaneous.

Feel free to check it out and let me know your thoughts.


Okay, I've done many stacks in my day and time and it is time to do a quick review of what I've thought of each product. I will give a short review of the more popular items I have used and will rate each accordingly to the effects I felt and what I expected from the product


I've done them all. From old school Xenadrine RFA-1 to clen/T3. There have been MANY thermogenics I've really enjoyed and some that were nothing but a caffeine boost, at best. Hopefully, this can help others out in choosing a thermo that is best for THEM. Enough talking, here are my thoughts:

* Cytodyne Xenadrine RFA-1


Personally, for me, this is the Wholly Grail of Thermogenics. It is a proprietary stack of ephedra, caffeine plus some other ingredients that when combined together, was absolutely great for me. This was actually the first thermo I ever took back when I was over-weight and lost 30lbs over the summer with this. It is nearly impossible to find right now due to the ban of ephedra and the discontinuance from Cytodyne. The ideal dosing was 2 servings daily, once in the morning and once in the early pm, or before exercise of two pills each serving. On a scale of 1-10, it rates and 8

* MuscleTech Hydroxycut


This is the ephedra version, without the green tea extract. It was a nice product, though for some reason, it did not give me the same effects that Xenadrine did. It worked well as an appetite suppressant; just the thermo side was a little less then desired. By the way, this is the ONLY MuscleTech product that was worth a crap. Dosing was 3 caps per serving, 3 servings per day, about 30-60 minutes prior to meals...Rates a 7/10

* VPX Liquid Clenbutrx


Right now it is the absolute BEST thermogenic out there. Better get it now before ephedra gets banned in a few months! You will not get a quicker rush and energy then you would from any other legal product on the market. Recommended dosage is 5cc, twice daily. Obviously, if you?re new to thermogenics, start off at 2cc a day and adjust accordingly, to your tolerance. Great product and it gets a solid 10/10

* AMR Liquid Clen357


Right next to VPX Liquid Clenbutrx as the best legal thermo out there right now. The only main difference is that AMR incorporates synthetic gugguls where VPX Liquid Clenbutrx, does not. It gives a fast rush of energy as well. The recommended dosages is the same as VPX Liquid Clenbutrx, so please use with caution?10/10

* San Tight!
Great product and had great results. My best results came when I stacked this with Vasopro Ephedrine HCL, green tea extract as well as 7-Keto?. The product, as a stand alone was very good and possibly one of the best ephedra free fat burners out there, right next to Thermorexin, which will be reviewed shortly. I have had nothing but great experiences with this product, and if you can tolerate caffeine, yohimbine and guggulbolics, this can be a great addition to your fat burning arsenal. Recommended dosing is one pill, twice a day. 8/10

* MP Thermorexin
The ingredients are pretty much identical to Tight plus it has a few extras to make this formula possibly better than San Tight!. I have been on it before and am very pleased with the results. You can stack ephedrine HCL to T-REX, if so desired, for greater thermo properties. I really enjoy this and it gets my recommendation as well. Dosing varies due to tolerance. Ideally, 3 pills a day split at different times is best. However, many people take 6 pills a day in 3X2 or 2X3 dosing. See how you tolerate this and adjust accordingly...8/10

* Diesel Fuel Reloaded
Another solid product from Chuck Diesel. A great pre-workout energizer. I have not really used it for the Thermogenics, so I can't judge how well it should do, but I know several on the board have, and all concur that it too, is a great product. Ingredients are similar to that of T-REX, however it does not have any synephrine. The dosing here is weight-dependent. On non-workout days, take 3 pills a day, before meals. On workout days, take one pill in the morning and 1-3 pills before your training. Again, adjust based on YOUR schedule. As a quick pre-workout energizer it receives an 8/10

* MM4 / Beta3 / Guggulbolic Extreme
I only tried this as a non-stimulatory stack so I cannot judge independently but I'm SURE they are all great products. This stack was very nice. My heat was raised a bid (to lower 99) and the overall feeling while on this stack was great. Did not become lethargic and it was a good suppressant. For those worried about ephedra free burners that are non-stimulant, this is probably the best combo you can have ...Best way to stack this is 1 pill, 3 times a day of each thermo, while you can actually move up to 2 pills, three time daily as these are non-stimulatory thermos. 9/10 (based on ephedra free, non-stimulants)

* Anarchy Stack
I learned about this stack while I was roaming around AM back in July. The only drawback I saw was that in order to get the FULL effects of this stack, high dosages of CLA as well as ALCAR were to be taken, among a few other ingredients that make the stack complete. Because of the high consumption, the monthly cost came in around $80-100, depending on how high these dosages went. Overall feeling was good while I took this. I lost BF%, while maintaining weight. More info can be found here...7/10



If you can still find this you're in tall cotton. Luckily I still have one adipo left as well as a few NYC stacks from AF. Many people actually prefer this over their cousin, ephedrine. Norephedrine is an isomer of ephedrine. The side-effects are milder (on the CNS) and the weight loss effects are still very good. I took this twice (after I loss my initial fat), and though I did not get as much energy as the EYC stack, my BF% dropped and I felt very good. Since nor-e was banned close to three years ago, good luck finding a stash of adipo...As nor-e is a cousin of ephedrine, it's not wise to surpass 100mg daily. Ideal dosages is 25mg nor-e, 200mg caffeine, 2.5-5mg yohimbine HCL, three times a day...9/10

* EYC / EC
Talking strictly ephedrine HCL, caffeine and yohimbine HCL here at a 25mg, 200mg, 5mg dosages, respectively, three times per day. This stack is nothing to mess with. Possibly the best stack you can get that is legal. As long as you don't surpass 100mg ephedrine HCL, 800mg caffeine and 0.2mg/kg yohimbine HCL, you should be okay. Those are all high dosages by the way and some may experience side-effects if dosing that high. Please use accordingly and be smart about it. Ephedrine's ? life is around 4 hours. Remember, caffeine is a diuretic so you should be drinking PLENTY of water daily, upwards of one to two gallons of water daily ...9/10

* Avant Labs Leptigen
I got in on this when Avant Labs was running the Beta promotion, where I bought three tubs. I used this a lot during the late summer months as I was cutting and it was a spectacular addition to any arsenal. The taste was very bland, but I mixed it with sugar free iced tea/lemonade and it was delicious. According to Avant Labs, LeptiGen is designed to deceive one's body into thinking it is being fed without necessitating the calories traditionally required to elicit the hormonal response typified by the fed state. The dosing is dependent on your body fat percentage. I normally dosed it mid morning, between mid 10 am feeding and my 1 pm lunch, 1 tbsp. You can find much more information regarding Leptigen at the link provided, as well as here 10/10

* VPX Redline
A very solid pre-workout energizer that gave me a great burst of energy. Unfortunately, I only tried a sample pack consisting of seven packs, but it was enough to realize that this product has some great potential. The ingredients are a blend of caffeine, green tea, yohimbine HCL, guggul, vinpocetine, synephrine, to name a few. I don't think it's as good as Liquid Clenbutrx, but as ephedra will soon be banned, Redline is a nice alternative that will still give you a rush of energy and a mild nootropic as well, noticed within 5min . Dosing, like Liquid Clenbutrx, is the same. 5cc, twice daily. As with most thermos out there, start at 2-3cc daily to assess tolerance and work your way up. 8/10

* BDC UCP-1 / UA / SU
I am adding UCP-1 to UA/SU so you can get a broad idea of all of them together.

Usnic acid is a naturally occurring metabolite that can be found in specific lichen species and kombucha tea. It has been shown to uncouple oxidative phosphorylation similar to DNP. This process results in an inefficient use of energy by the body. In response the body steps up ATP production, increases it's metabolism, and burns a tremendous amount of extra calories.

UA, in general, is a very potent product, however, you should take with extreme precaution as it has effects on your liver. Some studies have shown that the bioavailability of UA is around 78% and a 1/2 life of 6-14 hours. The most noticeable side effects that I noticed from UA is increased sweating and body temp (around 99.7-100.1 degrees). You should stack it with R-ALA / Milk Thistle / NAC and plenty of water. Again, that is my opinion. Recommended, but with caution. Please review this thread at Anabolic Minds. Dosages should be followed here and BDC recommends 3 caps, 3 times daily. Each serving contains 150mg UA, hence 450mg of Usnic Acid daily. No need to surpass this dosage...8/10 for weight loss and 2/10 for ignorance, if misused

* Clenbuterol with Cytomel (aka Clen/T3)
Clenbuterol with T3 raises metabolic levels about 10% and it can raise body temperature several degrees. Because of that, I'd rate this, the second best fat burner there is. Precaution should always be taken with this combo as ignorance can lead to a messed up thyroid and great muscle loss. Though illegal, this still can be accessed somewhat easily but don't expect any references from me or anyone of my bros ...The side effects I've noticed from the combo is somewhat similar to ECA, with the most noticeable being nausea, dizziness, increased BP, high body temp and muscle cramps. Muscle cramps can be avoided by drinking 1.5-2 gallons of water and consuming potassium before bed on an empty stomach. Taurine at 5grams is a necessity in
minimizing cramps. The most common cycles are 2 weeks on, followed by a 2 week EC/NYC cycle. There is a lot to be known about clen, so please do a search and visit here. Dosing of clen is pretty standard for first time users, and it goes something like this: 12344555555543 and then off. Remember, each pill is 20mcg, so day one you will take 1, day 2 you will take 2, day 6-12 you will take 5, etc…Cytomel is a bit different, here is what I recommend:

12.5mcg for 5-7 days (optional but recommended):

37.5mcg for 5 days
75mcg for 15 days
50mcg for 5 days
37.5mcg for 5 days
25mcg for 5 days
12.5 mcg for 5 days
6.25mcg for 5-7 days

More info can be found here Grades a 9/10.

* 2,4-dinitrophenol, aka DNP
This is the absolute best fat burner out there. I took a short cycle, at a low dose, and it was insane. I will not get into details here as it too, is illegal. If you would like more info on DNP, please visit a Steroid Forum as well as here...I will not recommend dosing as a mis-measurement of a fraction of a mg can be deadly...Needless to say, it gets a 10/10 for fat burning but it receives a 1/10 for the repercussions if used incorrectly, which can EASILY be death

Of course, with the good items, you will stumble across the bad. Here is by list of top two bad products:

* Cytodyne Xenadrine EFX
Cytodyne bit the big one after they discontinued RFA-1. This product was nothing but a caffeine boost, at best and even at that, it was mediocre. It was sad to see that such a promising product would get so many bad reviews (including me). Disappointing and may God have mercy on Cytodyne's future products if they resemble EFX! It gets a 2/10, at best.

* MuscleTech Hydroxycut
This is the ephedra free with green tea extract, standardized for 270mg EGCG. Again, as mentioned, most ephedra free thermos are a flop. This product can be used for a GTE supplement but why would anyone want to drop $50 on 210 pills of GTE? Not me and hopefully no one else. 3/10 (due to high GTE EGCG)

That is it for my Thermogenics review

Protein Powders

* Optimum Nutrition 100% Whey
What can be said about this product? It gets pimped on a DAILY basis and rightfully so. Possibly, one of the better overall values you can get in terms of cost vs effectiveness. On top of that, it was sent to and it passed, with actually BETTER numbers then what ON stated! Plus the fact that it mixes easily and has decent flavors, and then you have yourself a winner, no questions asked! As this is a fast acting whey, it's ideal for PWO usage. With all the pros on it, it only deserves a high grade 9/10

* Syntrax Nectar
When a time where many protein powders where out in the market, none of them had any remarkable taste to them. Yes, they did a great job; however, many were bland at best. Syntrax developed a great tasting protein powder called Nectar. Besides being purely protein, with NO carbs and NO fat, it is a whey protein isolate. Do you remember those good 'ol days, when we were kids, and we used to eat pixy-stix on a daily basis? Well, the taste of Nectar reminds me a lot of those days. You actually DO NOT need to add water, just eat away. Take this whenever you want a quick protein rush, as with all pure whey products, PWO is ideal. 9/10

* Syntrax Isomatrix Reloaded
Another fabulous protein powder that came as a blend of whey protein isolate, milk protein isolate (including micellar casein), soy protein isolate, and egg yolk protein isolate. It comes in two flavors: Vanilla Sunrise and Chocolate Hurricane. It is packed with BCAA's, glutamine and arginine. I am going to quote a buddy here, NO MERCY, who said it best in regards to Isomatrix Reloaded: Like Syntrax's Vanilla Sunrise flavor of Isomatrix reloaded the chocolate hurricane mixed easily with a few stirs of the spoon. I mixed the product with 16 oz of milk. Chocolate hurricane is very rich and creamy. It is great for those who want to give into their sweet tooth without having to sacrifice their diet. I highly recommend chocolate hurricane to those who love chocolate and want a good high quality whey protein. Both flavors are great and I recommend them both. You can use it PWO, however, as it's not a purely whey protein, you're better off using this other times throughout the day. 9/10

* Molecular Nutrition Whey Fruity
Solid product with a nice taste. Unfortunately I only tasted the sample packet of fruit punch and lemonade. Both were pleasantly smooth with little aftertaste. It too is CHO and fat free and uses Splenda as its sweetener. The only drawback I saw was that it was somewhat foamy when mixed with water. My favorite was the Fruit Punch. 8/10

* Nature's Best Isopure (Low carb)
This product contains purely ion exchanged whey protein isolate. It contains minimal carbs (0g sugar) and no fat, with 42g protein per packet. There is nothing bad I could say about this product, enjoyed consuming it. If I would say there was one thing that could've been better is that the mix-ability and after-taste were a little to be desired. I found serving this chilled with some ice cubes made it taste better. 7/10

* Prolab Lean Mass Matrix
On of the better 40/40/20 macronutrient breakdown MRP's out there. It is a whey/casein mixture that maximizes the retention. With the addition of fibrous, complex carbs derived from barley, brown rice and hydrolyzed oat flour and EFA's. The taste I got was cinnamon oatmeal and it was truly amazing. There are cheaper proteins out there and it is more advisable to make your own meal, in lieu of shakes, but this is really a solid deal if you're running short on time and need something to get you going. Again, my rating is based on the product, not the right thing to do. 10/10

* EAS Myoplex Deluxe
Not a terrible MRP, considering it is aspartame free, plus it includes low GI carbs, therefore reducing the spike in your blood sugar (glucose). It too is a whey/casein blend, with the addition of CLA. Overall, not too bad, though the older version tasted better since it had more flavor, however this version contains fiber, whereas the old, did not. It tastes fine with ice. 8/10



I will be providing more links in this section since my experience with some of these popular brands is somewhat limiting.

Before I mention these sites, please visit this thread first.

* AST Micronized Creatine
This is a very popular brand among the crowd. According to AST, micronized creatine increases muscle torque, increases muscle cell volume, increases muscle energy, increases muscle strength, increases muscle endurance and recovery time. As with most creatines, loading is not necessary and 5g PWO should suffice. Here is more information regarding Micronized Creatine …9/10

* Prolab CreaPURE Creatine
When it comes to the processing of creatines, you want the best. For those who respond well to creatine, that means you want something that has gone through the lab tests and screening procedures before the processing even begins. Prolab's creatine is HPLC Pure pharmaceutical grade creatine monohydrate. Here is more information regarding CreaPURE's creatine. 10/10

Note: There are MANY brands out there that should be mentioned, but due to the sake of this review, I have limited my choices to the more popular ones.

Alright, those are the pure creatine monohydrate products I have chosen. I will now include a few products that seem to have gotten a great amount of reviews as of late. These are considered the cell-volumizers for the creatine non-responders.

Ideal dosages for the following four products is two servings a day on workout days, and one serving a day on non-workout days (it may vary, but the general consensus follows this route). Take it with 16oz of water and for better results, and take it with food

* Syntrax Swole V2
The ultimate cell-volumizer out there right now, if you do not respond to creatine. There are countless threads out there expressing their thoughts on Swole V2, among other cell-volumizers that I will discuss shortly. When it came down to performance, endurance and staying focused throughout my workout, Swole V2 was the real deal. Here is a thread I made a while back regarding Swole V2. There are a few issues with the ingredients involved, but was best said by Pogue. This is just one of those times where the theory doesn't equate to reality. Anyway, it gets a 10/10

* San V12
It is a great product, but not as good as Swole, IMHO. Gains were nice in the gym as well as endurance, but ultimately when it came time to go into overdrive, where you're trying to pump out those last few sets of the day, it fell short. I did not notice great fullness, or vascularity, either. Here is some more info on San V12 8/10

* ISS Satur8
Never tried it, however there have been some pretty darn good reviews regarding this. I do hope that I get a chance to try out this product in the near future as I believe it has a lot of potential, at least from word of mouth. You can few more information here

* Nutrabolics Noz
This too, I never tried, but I've heard some pretty good reviews regarding Rodney's product. Dito had a pretty nice review. You can find more information regarding Nutrabolics Noz here

Well, that is it from the basic cell-volumizers.

Miscellaneous items

* G-Plenish GlutaGain
I was one of the first testers of this item, as I bought an initial tub from AF, before it was included in the Cyber Store. At first I was skeptical because I always thought l-glutamine was not necessary and many times a scam as it takes many grams per dose to bypass the gut membrane. This was before I ran into glutamine peptides. I have noticed increased vascularity, strength, muscle recovery and very importantly for me, especially as of late, is that it actually helps my immune system fight off colds (damn North Eastern USA weather). I really think Omega has himself a winner and I am truly honored to be in a review with many bodies as we stack G-Plenish with Legal Gear's Cold Fusion, in the upcoming months. For all you doubters out there, watch out, this product is TRULY the real deal. Ideally, you want to take two heaping tbsp's a day, once in the morning and once in your PWO shake. Some opt to take more scoops and it varies a little with your overall weight, where someone at 260 might take one more heaping tbsp, then someone at 210. You can find more information regarding G-Plenish here 10/10

* Syntrax Adonis X
I just finished my first bottle of this stuff and I have to admit, that I first, I thought it was just another product that I got absolutely NO reaction from. It actually took me about 2 weeks until I actually started feeling the effects. What I did notice was increased strength on my leg workouts (less pronounced on my chest) and for some reason, my cardio was very smooth. My pumps were strong and I was able to get a few extra reps at the end of my workouts, which to me, is important. I will be starting my next bottle tomorrow and will report when I'm done with a fiinal review. The dosing is 5 pills a day, ideally split up in a 2 x 2 x 1 dosage. So far, it gets a 7/10 and it can possibly change after my next bottle is finished.

Personally speaking, one of the best pre-workout stimulants/energizers out there. I just finished my second bottle and I cannot go to the gym without my three scoops. Beast had a great article regarding BSL GO. The servings go as stated: Directions for use as a dietary supplement to improve body composition, add 4-10 ounces of your favorite liquid to 1 scoop of Go per 75lbs of bodyweight, 2 to 3 times per day. For use as an energy aid before training, consume 3-4 scoops 15 minutes prior to activity. Note- Add more or less liquid as you like for desired taste 10/10

That completes my review.

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Old 11-10-2004, 10:06 PM   #2 (permalink)

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My my Sawastea.....thats alot of supplements that you've pissed away oundit

Any suggestions on a "supplement stack" for the budget minded folks? Perhaps something on a $50 a month budget?

I can still get ephedra at my local 7-11 store along with some caff. pills/tabs.
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Old 11-12-2004, 03:55 AM   #3 (permalink)

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You mean ephedrine, right

For $50/mth, stick to the basics...multi-vitamin, EFA's and whey protein. Everything else should be in the form of real food.
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Old 11-12-2004, 07:11 PM   #4 (permalink)

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Default yeah....

Yeah.... Got a tub of whey, corn sugar, and eca..... think that'll do for now...
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Old 11-14-2004, 04:24 AM   #5 (permalink)

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Default Re: yeah....

Remember to use the dextrose, strictly PWO. Try to avoid the unwanted insulin spike
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Old 11-17-2004, 09:50 PM   #6 (permalink)
The Black ball

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Default Re: yeah....

Have you tried or know anything about a product called Hot-Rox? I think its a Bio-Test product. I was reading an ad about it but wanted some "real world" opinion.

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Old 11-18-2004, 03:29 AM   #7 (permalink)

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Default Re: yeah....

Black Ball, I am familiar with the product, however, never tried it. It was over-priced for a long period of time and during the recent months, the price has been greatly reduced, to under $30 at a few sites. The overall consensus is that, for the amount of servings vs the price, it is NOT worth it.

You should look into MAN Scorch, or if you're truly daring, make your own EC/Y stack.

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Old 11-28-2004, 12:07 PM   #8 (permalink)
AYSG AKA Im Trying

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Default Re: yeah....

Great Thread!!:bin
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Old 11-29-2004, 07:12 PM   #9 (permalink)

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Default funny story

Those of you who are in the "know" about supplements and etc will appreciate this one...

True story...actually....happened last night when I got gas at my local Exxon....

Since I didnt want to use the ECA/Y every morning before working out, I usually alternate ECA on day, green tea the next day, a can of sugar free red bull, then back to ECA again.

So I didnt have any "Red Bull" at home so I thought I would pick up a can of something after getting gas. Lets see, there are many to choose from: Red Bull, Monster, Stacker, Rip It, and etc etc. Since Rip It (sugar free version) is 99 cents, I thought I would give it a try. I go the cashier to pay for it. Then cashier, a lanky 40-something, white guy said the funniest thing. Are you a bodybuilder? I said "No". Then I probably shouldnt sell you this because it can kill ya.

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Old 11-29-2004, 08:11 PM   #10 (permalink)
Max Johnson

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Default Re: funny story

That's some sales technique. If he were any less knowledgable he'd be working for GNC.
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